... knocked on my door just a minute ago, inviting me to a Jehova's Witnesses' event. I politely declined the offer. Maybe I should I have ushered them inside, offered them a cup of tea and a reading from "The God Delusion" or "The End of Faith". I wonder how they would have liked that.
Finished The Road a couple of days ago. Shan't say much about it, just this: Read it.
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while i do not believe in their dogma in the least, i respect jehovah's witnesses. unlike many religious conservatives, they seem sincere and not self righteous....
ps - i read the road recently - very good book - would liek to read the other 2 you mentioned but $$$ are hard to come by
I beg to differ. Just like other sects, they are convinced that they are the only ones that will make it into heaven, they are convinced that their interpretation of scripture is the correct one... the list goes on. In general, I find it hard to respect any religious conviction that holds that whoever doesn't subscribe to it will be denied God's mercy. Mind you, I'm not religious in the least nor do I believe in any kind of a personal god, but even back in the day when I did so sincerely I was appalled by religions and religious people who hold this "truth" to be self-evident. An aunt of mine was (and probably is still) a born-again Christian and I remember having a conversation with her about indigenous peoples in remote jungles: Will they go to hell, even if they never got a chance to hear about your God? Of course! This left me stunned at the arrogance of religion, and I still am.
perhaps my opinion is influenced by the individuals i met - i am one of the rare folks (drives my wife crazy) that actually talks and debates them when they come to the door... i did not sense self righteousness - and i didn't sense that they were "profiteering" like televangelists...
not i recognize that it might sound crazy to claim a group that believes only a certain group of people will make it to heaven are not self righteous - but i genuinely don't believe that jw's believe they are "better" than anyone - i do not lump them in with other "born again" religious conservatives
now, keep in mind, i certainly don't subscribe to their beliefs and in fact, see many negative consequences - my beliefs are prob 180 degrees the opposite - i just find their motivations are pure - something i do not feel about all born again christians...
Ok, point taken. I have to admit that I haven't, that I recall, discussed their faith with any Jehova's Witness. A visit to the website I link to in the post does little to convince me that their beliefs make any more sense than others, but I am not qualified to comment on their sincerity. Nevertheless, I don't see that being sincere in your arrogant faith makes that faith any better or that person a "better" religious person.
Sam Harris makes a really interesting point in his book: Imagine that one beautiful morning, everyone on the planet wakes up with their brains wiped. Noone knows how to speak or read. Noone has a religion. All the world's knowledge is available in books, just as it is now, but noone recalls any of it and so has no preconceived notion of what they say. Once humans have again figured out how to read, by what criteria do they figure out that the Bible is true, rather than, say, the Odyssey or the Koran? I find this thought exercise fascinating and one of the most powerful arguments I have ever seen against religion :)
let me try to explain where i am coming from (to myself as much as you - cause it feels odd *defending* a faith with which i disagree strongly - a belief which, in fact, casts me to eternal damnation)
i believe in my own personal dogma with as much certainty as conservative christians believe in theirs...
what's the difference then?
i don't believe those that don't agree with me go to hell - well, that's true, but given i don't believe in hell, that doesn't mean much...
i allow for a bit of uncertainty in my worldview... maybe....though i do think i am as certain in my own way about some things as they are....
my beliefs are dynamic - subject to change and not static...ok - but again at any point in time, my beliefs represent my best guess about the nature of the world...
i guess what i am trying to say is that although the specifics my beliefs are much different than the beliefs of conservative christians, i hold my beliefs with passion and certainty just as they do which, means that there are more similarities in the *nature* of our beliefs that either side would admit - dogma is dogma...
and if, as the jehova witness do, you believe that a certain set of beliefs are required to escape eternal damnation, well, then by going door to door trying to convert people is a loving, compassionate practice...
to be sure, there are those among the religious right that subvert those beliefs for political, financial gain - or to oppress groups - but to my original point, i think it is possible to find folks that live their faith with humility and sincerity
Mike, I think you are right on that last point. I also think that your own 'dogmatic' beliefs are in a way 'better' than the dogmatic beliefs of religious people, because I imagine you would be willing to shred your beliefs if reasoning showed you that they were untenable. Not something that applies to the religious people I've known.
Furthermore, you might not expect other people to live, and die, by your dogmas. Not so for JW, who willingly give up their children's lifes when a blood transfusion would have saved it.
And since only 144,000 chosen souls will make it to heaven anyway, there's little chance that the door-to-door soul saving of JW's will really help anyone anymore. After all, there are more than 144,000 JW in the world today. Which doesn't mean that they are insincere in continuing their proselytizing, just maybe more than a little naïve?
Defending a religion that you don't believe in... that is a little odd indeed :) However, I think we're mostly just having an interesting discussion (as you've figured out by now, religion can get me really worked up :S)
wow - blogger ate my latest comment...
to summarize the missing comment:
a - you are right - that i am willing to change my beliefs based on evidence is a fundamental difference - perhaps *the* fundamental difference - i love that the dalai lama has said that if buddhist beliefs were contradicted by a scientific discovery, the belief should be discarded or interpreted metaphorically - can't imagine a christian leader saying similar...
had a great set of discussions in an ed-psych class i took - i asked the prof about it - i think the ? intrigued her - i think our conclusion was that faith trumps that part of the brain...
secondly, i concluded that if it is true that one must be in the top 144,000 people of all time, i might as well hang it up and lead a life of decadence - i think i'm a good person, but doubt i would make the cut...
hahaha, I couldn't agree with you more on that last one ;D (and on some level it is indescribably funny that someone takes him-/herself seriously enough to even try making the cut... let alone believe that they'll make it!)
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